Sunday Card Chat 07/19/09 High Priestess

Images for this Chat

RWS: Val, Sufi, Mep

Paulina Tarot: Annie

Thoth: Paul

Shining Tribe: Web

Romani: Disa

Bruegel: Mib

Druid Craft: Uruviel (Jimi)

Radiant RW: Autumnmist (Sonnie)

Keyword or short meaning?

Val: Silence

Disa: power

Val: Intuition

Uruviel: inner wisdom

Val: Uncommon knowledge (from Fenestra Tarot LWB)

Web: nice Val!

paul: intuition

Autumnmist: intensity

paul: hunch and wait and see

mep: secrets, unconscious, hidden knowledge, initiation

Autumnmist: reserve

Web: For the STT it's: To the center RWS: Intuitivness

Ann: keeper of knowledge

Val: Libraries - they're silent & all kinds of knowledge is "hidden" among the shelves

mep: great, Val!

Val: :D

Ann: good - i like that

Web: yeppers

paul: the priestess looks like she's about to conduct an orchestra, Ta Da!

Disa: the Druidcraft HP is my fave

Web: I fixed the date and title of the card if you refresh your screen ;)

sonnie: All knowing in everything, thinker, analyser, seer but remains calm collected and intuiging

Web: actually I don't think there is a single one I don't like in this group

Web: WB Paul and Welcome Mib :)

mep: Agree, Web - The Druidcraft is a little eerie, but I still like it

Disa: hiya sufi

Web: I even like the Bruegel :)

Web: lol

Web: Hey Sufi

Disa: eerie huh? I look just like that when I wake up mep :)

mib_dmytcr: Good Morning Everyone! You wouldn't believe how beautiful the weather is today.

Uruviel: Hi, Sufi

Whirling_Sufi: Morning all-I'm late!

Uruviel: Hi, mib

mep: Disa! LOL! Bruegel looks like the woman who invented the "beehive" hairdo!

Autumnmist: oops

Val: lol Web - I was thinking the same about Brugel. Finally, a Bruegel card that doesn't make me scratch my head, "Huh?"

Disa: ehat's going on with the Brugals shoes?

mep: she's got bees in her bonnet and japanese wooden sandals on her feet!

mib_dmytcr: She has huge feet doesn't she! Think her male side has sunk itself into those sandals.

Disa: oh she DOES have a bee in her bonnet

Val: I think bees are an ancient symbol of the Goddess

mep: well, as my dad used to say about me, mib, I would have been a lot taller if God hadn't turned so much under for foundation. I think Bruegel's HP is my long-lost sister - ha!

mep: i mean, how many people do you know who can barely claim 5' 2" yet wear a size 9 1/2 shoe???

Whirling_Sufi: Oh, yes, Disa, I was about to say that-bees in her bonnet!

mib_dmytcr: lol Mep.

Disa: yep big feet all about being grounded yep

mep: ha!

Disa: is why I love my Druidcraft

Disa: big bare feet

Val: They're ya go, mep. You're VERY grounded :D

Whirling_Sufi: I love the Druidcraft whhich reminds me of The World Spirit Tarot Priestess. The Rider is too tame and serene for me.

mib_dmytcr: Hey Mep! Think you're more my Sister especially now that my feet have morphed into an 11W!!! lol

mep: yes - almost all of the DC people have big bare feet. 11? WOW, Phyllis!

Val: That's what I love about RWS, Sufi. She's so serene

Web: yes relaxed

Whirling_Sufi: Hi, Ann!

mep: Yes, I love RWS too - she seems inscrutable. (word of the day)

Disa: oops brb

Whirling_Sufi: My doctor looks like her! LOL

mep: serenity is a good trait in a doctor!

Whirling_Sufi: It sure is, especially with a non-compliant like me!

Web: ... cryptic: of an obscure nature; "the new insurance policy is written without cryptic or mysterious terms"; "a deep dark secret"; "the inscrutable ...

mib_dmytcr: brb

Whirling_Sufi: I agree about her having a fine quality but I like to see behind the veil upfront. peraps

Val: verb: make undecipherable or imperceptible by obscuring or concealing

Web: hahaha

Web: well that you do yourself Sufi

Val: :D

Web: :D

Web: Do you tend to see the HP as sexual or virginal? Why?

mep: hmmm - never really thought about it. I would say sexual, in that she is the keeper of secrets, and how can you keep a secret if you don't know about everything?

Val: Virginal, as in "belonging to no man"

Web: Hi AmberFox Welcome to Chat

AmberFox: Hiya everyone

Uruviel: Hi, AmberFox

Val: Hello AmberFox!

mep: But I think, while "knowing" she probably is celebate.

Whirling_Sufi: More sexual, I think, even though in some decks she looks virginal

mep: by choice

mep: although, i dunno - those cut-open pomegranates are certainly suggestive, aren't they?

Whirling_Sufi: That grandma doesn't seem virginal to me! LOL!

Val: In one of Greer's books, she mentions the original definition of 'virgin' as "belonging to no man"

Web: I've read quite a few meanings that suggest she is virginal, and I've always seen her as sexual, so thought I'd throw that out there

AmberFox: I think she is the goddess

Web: but yes to the virginal - belonging to no man, but a sexual creature

AmberFox: maiden mother crone

paul: sexual is a blind, virgin is an aspect of her self=completeness, devotion to the unseen.

Uruviel: I like your explanation, Val. :)

AmberFox: all knowing, giver of life

Uruviel: Oh...that's good, Paul... :)

Web: um the all knowing part yes, the giver of life i'd relate more to the Empress

AmberFox: in some cards that is, like in the druidcraft one she is a distributer of natural powers

Whirling_Sufi: I like that, too, Val, that's how I feel strongly myself, thogh not a HP!

Web: blind in what way paul

Val: I wish I could remember which book that came from. I absolutely that definition.

Val: absolutely love*

paul: if the high priestess is the maiden and the Empress the mother, where is the crone?

AmberFox: She knows the secrets of the universe

Whirling_Sufi: in the Buckland deck, Paul-LOL!

Val: Great question, Paul!

Uruviel: lol, Sufi.

mep: Re the "giver of life." Per Thomson (Pix from the Heart), the pomegranate represents: "one creative source becoming many, inasmuch as its seed, its blood-red juice, and its shaper symbolize fertility and new possibilities." Of course, I think that's more metaphorical fertility, than actual physical fertility.

Web: yes hidden in the Moon

AmberFox: the second card that we are discussing, romani tarot, the grandmother figure with the baby, I think she is a crone representative

Web: mep I'm sure it can be, I just don't tend the HP in that direction personally

Whirling_Sufi: Yes, I do, too Amber!

Disa: bk now sorry

Web: WB

Disa: ty

paul: in the Romany deck I would agree. But let's say in the rider Waite Smith, where with the crone be?

mep: I actually see the HP (in any deck) as a woman in all three phases - maiden, mother, AND crone. That is part of her being all-knowing, and keeping the secrets of all three phases. Even her crown (RWS) shows three phases of the moon...

mep: integration

mep: reconciliation

AmberFox: yes mep absolutely

Whirling_Sufi: In her wisdom, as I see it, Paul, even though she looks young.

Web: Val the virgin thing, I know I've heard in relation to the vestal virgins in that they were sexual, but not belonging to any man. An unmarried woman who dedicated herself to the temple.

paul: That crown is a good hint!

Web: yes agree

Whirling_Sufi: Yes!

Val: Web, seems I've read that (vestal virgins) somewhere, too

Val: May have been in the same Greer book

Web: lol could be :)

Web: On the Romani the baby almost seems like a doll

Disa: I'm not sure how the hp would have such intuitive wisdom and power- know how to use it and still be considered the maiden?

Web: it's kinda at an odd angle, and stiff

mep: Virginity, to me, equates with innocence and naivete. And I don't think the HP is innocent, and she sure as heck isn't naive!

Uruviel: Could be back in school when we studied mythology or something like that, Val... That's when I learned about vestal virgins (must have been college...doubt they'd have let us talk aboutt hat in public school ;)

Disa: umm relating to pomegranites- I just read yesterday that pomegranite juice acts as a natural viagra?

Web: LOL! Good to know Disa!

Disa: I'll let ya know if it's true ;)

Val: LOL Disa

mep: overshare!

mep: :D

Whirling_Sufi: Hey, Disa! Great news! LOL

Web: You know it might be the virgin stuff comes from the original title to the card of Papesse

mep: figures - the Church WOULD equate an "honorable woman" to virginity.

mep: hmmmph

Val: Could be, Web. Hadn't thought of that

Disa: hmm

Web: well at least the men are to be as well ;)

mep: true.

paul: now I know why I had pomegranate juice to my iced tea all the time!

Disa: wha

Whirling_Sufi: LOL!

Web: hahahahaha!

Disa: ha

mep: Well, Paul - does it work? hahahahaaha!

paul: does anybody take the Pope Joan story seriously?

Disa: well it's related to the HP and her pomegranites

Web: Well I don't dis-believe it

mep: who knows?

Disa: I don't know the pope joan story

Web: not sure if I take it completely seriously

Uruviel: I wouldn't suppose that all virgins *must* be naive...that's a stereotype of virgin, yes...but I don't believe it to be so in all cases.

Val: Same here - what Web said

Web: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan

Whirling_Sufi: I read a great fictional account of it and I still can't see it as real.

Uruviel: This woman is spiritutally gifted. She is wise beyond her years.

mep: i see her as ageless

Web: yesh! totally agree

paul: It same medieval myth that a woman disguised as a monk on pilgrimage, became noted for her piety and scholarship and was elected pope, while she was pregnant with their lovers child. She gives birth during the papal procession

Disa: thx web

Web: I could see it in the old sense of Virgin, not the current definition of virgin.

mib_dmytcr: But Paul, when she was found out, didn't they execute her and her child?

Whirling_Sufi: Thomson writes of another story of Abbess Manfreda elected to be Pope and later burned at the stake.

Disa: yikes

Disa: did they think she was a witch

Web: they burned a lot of people you didn't have to be a witch to be burned

paul: yes in some versions of the story, I like the Greek version where she somehow manages to get away and live happily ever after with her lover and child

Whirling_Sufi: She had been considered a female John the Baptistand would pave the way for a female savior.

Web: but then again if you disagreed with the church you were a witch ;)

AmberFox: is this about joan of arc?

Web: no Pope Joan

Whirling_Sufi: No, Abbess Manfreda.

Disa: well if that's all it takes to be a witch then ;)

Web: was going to say that ;)

Whirling_Sufi: LOL!

Web: lol

Web: What is the shadow side of this card? What might be an excess?

paul: hey if you're too pretty, or you're too ugly, or somebody just don't like you, they'll accuse you of being a witch

Whirling_Sufi: Too controlling!

Disa: hmm I could see becoming hermit like in your knowlege and power

Web: I could see this card as indicate someone who can't leave their house... can't remember the name for it

Disa: agoraphobic?

mep: obsession over what one doesn't know (and can't know, at the current time), to the exclusion of dealing with reality

Whirling_Sufi: agorphobia

Web: yesh!

Val: Suppressing intuition

Whirling_Sufi: agora

mib_dmytcr: Too much isolation...Closing off to what's going on in the outside world. Lack of compassion.

Web: nice mep

paul: the Thoth reversal of the priestess, listen to yourself you're missing something important

mep: Shadow side could also be obsession with what you CAN'T know, to the exclusion of doing something worthwhile with what you DO know

Web: living inside a fantasy world

mep: didn't mean to repeat myself...technical "hiccups!" My first post didn't show up until I posted the second one.

mep: ???

Web: Not being willing to look inside. Everything is wonderful. (Fantasy World)

Web: Nice mep

mep: Also, not being WILLING to discover what you don't see readily...another version of the "shadow" side

mep: right - what web said!

paul: but fantasy can be one of the ways that we connect with intuition,

Web: The HP is one of my fav Thoth cards

Web: I love the dimension of it

Uruviel: agoraphobia? Irrational fear of leaving the house?

Val: "Ignorance is bliss" (staying in a Fanstacy World)

Web: yep agree Paul

Web: it's when you live there

mib_dmytcr: I don't really understand the HP...Sort of like she's Jesus, unreachable on the human level.

Web: the opposite of not looking in is only living in there

Disa: we have to stay balanced though between fantasy and reality- it ain't always easy

mep: the thoth seems to imply there may be danger in delving into one's unconscious, one's intuition. But she offers the chance, anyway

Web: either way can be excessive

paul: actually I think she's very accessible if you accept her on her terms

Web: you do have to climb over some spiky stuff

Val: As a keeper of Hiffen Knowledge - abusing that knowledge

mep: Jimi - agoraphobia also implies not wanting to interact with others in the "real" world.

Val: Oops! *Hidden Knowledge

Web: take a leap and the net will catch ya :)

paul: does anybody have a take on the camel?

Whirling_Sufi: I was wondering, Val-Hahaha!

mib_dmytcr: Or the Keeper of Forbidden Knowledge Val!

paul: does this mean the priestess likes to smoke unfiltered cigarettes?

Web: Like the Magician's tools, to me it indicates we have what we need

Web: lol!

Val: Gimel (camel) - never quite understood that one

Whirling_Sufi: Oh God, Paul!

mep: I find it very telling that the veil behind the RWS HP doesn't QUITE cover up what is behind it. We are given a tantalizing peek around the edges, at what lies beyond. But we have to pass by the HP and through the gateway of dark and light (the 2 pillars) to actually get there.

mib_dmytcr: Paul lol - Camels?

Web: we can go the distance,

paul: Does of the camel, you got it Val!

Web: I know it's actually related to the Hebrew letter assigned to the card

Val: Right, Gimel is the Hebrew letter, meaning 'camel'

Disa: camels store water

Disa: umm

Disa: water intuition?

mep: and this is a WHITE camel - any significance to that???

mep: Well, the HP is a water card.

Whirling_Sufi: I like that iea of going the distance-empowering!

Val: White camel? Never heard that one

Whirling_Sufi: idea

mib_dmytcr: And from what I've heard of camels, they're a nasty animal...

paul: so can somebody give me the gist of Gimel?

mep: no - i mean the camel on the Thoth HP card is a white camel.

Val: Oh! Duh, Val

Web: Our Sages teach that the gimel symbolizes a rich man running after a poor man, the dalet, to give him charity. The word gimel is derived from the word gemul, which in Hebrew means both the giving of reward as well as the giving of punishment. In Torah, both reward and punishment have the same ultimate aim the rectification of the soul to merit to receive God's light to the fullest extent.

Uruviel: agoraphobia...it's a phobia or panic disorder not merely not wanting to...I don't think I would generally see that in this card, although it might lead one to think of that in specific circumstances.

Disa: purity

paul: is that something like the white buffalo, of American Indian lore?

Web: Agree Uruviel, I'm not saying they want to

mep: great info, Web!

paul: While it sounds like we're in the underworld with the weighing of the souls of Osiris, Web.

Web: I'm saying I could see this card indicating that disorder

mep: or a tendency towards it, if one is not careful

Disa: reversed web, or the shadow side of the card do you mean?

Web: yes!

Web: I don't do reversals per say so yes the shadow side

Web: http://www.inner.org/hebleter/gimmel.htm <~~ where I got it from

Autumnmist: Gimel is also the path that connects Tiphareth and Kether...it's a means of connecting to godhead

Whirling_Sufi: Well, I don't see that inthe Druidcraft or the World Spirit! There is a wildness and very strong part of nature in both

Whirling_Sufi: referring to agoraphobia

Web: I don't necessarily either

paul: I've been reading a 1947 noir roman, called Nightmare Alley, it has 22 chapters, each one a different major Arcana card, and each chapter can be read, From the point of view of the major Arcana, got this hint from Mary Greer.

Whirling_Sufi: Hmm! Must get that book, Paul-sounds fascinating.

paul: Anyway the high priestess, in that story deals with a boy losing his virginity to an older woman

Web: kewl!

Web: that sounds very interesting

paul: instead of the Carnival, there is a good movie by the same name,

Disa: it's the wildness of the HP that makes me feel she's going on her primal instints, her intutive nature

paul: no one has formally decided that perhaps one can get some interesting meanings about the major Arcana from reading these chapters as commentaries on the cards

Whirling_Sufi: Yes, Disa-I agree!

mep: "Nightmare Alley" was also produced as a film in 1947, with Tyrone Power and Joan Blondell.

Web: I tend to see the HP as very positive and spiritually invigorating

mep: Available on Netflix.

paul: that's right mep

Web: an nobody has to agree with me :) I just say what I see if it don't work for ya, leave it behind :D

mep: good movie, but since I haven't read the book, I don't know if it follows it closely or not

Disa: me too web, getting us in touch with ourselves,

paul: interesting flick, the book of course has more substance,

Whirling_Sufi: Oh, I agree, I connect with her readily even though I prefer some images over others.

mep: I really connect with the HP card. Sometimes, in odd moments, a feeling will come over me VERY STRONG that all I have to do to know everything I want to know is to reach out and push the veil aside....

Web: Nightmare alley / William Lindsay Gresham

paul: back to the high priestess, can one see this as a initiation of a pro-sexual life?

Web: is that the book?

Uruviel: I agree, Web...very positive and spiritually invigorating...I like that phrasing :)

Val: Yes, Web, that's the book

Web: Yes I think so Paul

mep: yes - Gresham is given writing credits for the film (not the screenplay, but the story)

Web: kewl I can get it through the library :)

Web: I think it's pro-sexual in a way that is empowering

mep: well, I see this as initiation, but I don't know that it has anything to do with sexuality or a pro-sexual life.

paul: he was a sad sack guy who drank too much and beat his wife, she left him moved to England and Married CS Lewis

mep: Well THAT was definitely a change!

Whirling_Sufi: Oh, is that the guy?

Disa: I wasn't sure if I saw it as initiation- I felt she already knows this stuff?

Web: but would tend to see the Empress as more about Sex the sex in the High Priestess is about honoring yourself, desire, and needs

mep: from a drunk wife-beater to CS Lewis!

mib_dmytcr: HP is for me anyway, a slippery image. One minute I can hook into the message she brings, the next draw a big time blank. She just might play the part of Trickster, makes you work hard to dig out what you need to know..

mep: yes, Web - I agree.

Whirling_Sufi: But she does initiate others!

mep: yes, sufi

mep: or allows them to initiate themselves.

Web: yep

mep: she is the KEEPER of secrets, not the REVEALER. But she offers a way you can discover them.

paul: I think this trickster idea as something to ponder

mep: The scroll on her lap, for instance....

mep: "Rota tarot orat tora ator.

Disa: that's true sufi

Uruviel: Sex...no sex...that's not what I see and feel when I look at the high priestess...It's about the inner, spiritual, intuition...with or without sex...to me, the card is more spiritual in nature as opposed to more sexual in nature. But that's me. Y'all can jazz 'er up all you like. ;)

mep: i agree, Jimi

Whirling_Sufi: LOL, Jimi!

Web: I totally agree with you Jimi

mep: actually, except for her moon connections (very feminine), I see the HP as more a-sexual than anything else in this regard

paul: normally I wouldn't see the high priestess as a let's go out and get laid card

Disa: but the power of ones own sexual nature is something to be in tune with

Web: LOL!

paul: rather I'd say wait until the timing is right

mep: some say that good sex transcends human consciousness, and that is what the HP is all about!

Web: no me either it was just something I had recently read, and wondered how others thought about it

paul: won't argue that, mep!

Uruviel: Well, that's not the impression y'all were giving me with the discussion...LOL...

Disa: yep I see that mep

Web: lol well ya never know how the discussions going to go ;)

mep: oh - we're just all hot and bothered, Jimi! HA!:D

Disa: ha

Web: What is the HP asking you to bring into your life? What do you need more of?

Uruviel: Hmmmm...I wonder what mep will do after chat. ;)

paul: really should we be looking behind the veil?

Disa: need more time to be aware of my own nature

mep: more trust in "knowing without knowing." I mean, somethings you just KNOW. It's really not so hard. I believe we come to this life knowing EVERYTHING, and then as we grow up we gradually forget it all and have to rediscover it.

Disa: yes paul we should be looking cause we're drawn to do so

Web: Spirit, ritual, inner journey, path work, dreams.

Val: bring into your life - silence

Web: Yes, if you are willing and ready but not if you JUST want to know whats back there

mep: oh yes, we should look behind the veil. That veil is an illusion - and more - a CHALLENGE to get back to one's natural state of "knowing," of elightenment, of connection to all.

Disa: some aren't drawn to the veil, are they afraid or just don't are or just unawre

Whirling_Sufi: Well, sometimes I feel like howling at the moon with the HP

paul: dreams are a classic veil, when we get the priestess is the saying go into hibernation and pay attention to your dreams?

Web: the HP is related to the Moon, and therefore to me there is a darkness inherent in parting the veil

Disa: me too sufi and sometimes I do

mep: not the hibernation part, but pay attention to your dreams, yes

Whirling_Sufi: She may be inviting others to the world of dreams

Uruviel: She invites me to bring more of my inner wisdom to the forefront...to explore deeply...everything I need to know...everything I need to use...it's all there...behind the veil...peeking out and calling me.

mep: yes, Jimi!

paul: Does the high priestess give a sense of how to interpret our dreams?

Web: I think she tells us we can

mep: i would say if anything, she tells us to just relax into the process...it will come.

Web: the how she leaves to you

paul: Maybe that scroll is a dream journal?

Whirling_Sufi: Yes, she is definitely calling, but I think the Rider HP needs one to go behind the veil.

mep: In the Star Trek "Insurrection" movie, one of the characters says, "It took us a long time to learn that it doens't take a long time to learn." I always think of that with the HP card.

Web: nice paul

Web: kewl mep, I like that

paul: Good point

Web: The Paulina Tarot is very dreamy

mep: I believe that knowing what is behind the veil is our NATURAL state, but we've moved away from that.

Disa: I lov the Paulina

Disa: me too mep

mep: Yes, VERY dream-state-ish...the Paulina

Web: I'm not familiar with the deck, so don't know if all the cards have that feel or not

Whirling_Sufi: Yes!

paul: anybody got a take on the high priestess as the number two?

Disa: I don't feel the RWS is in tune with her own natural state, but rather the state of what she's been told to be in tune with- I dunno

Web: it has bees too!

mib_dmytcr: I think HP's secret message is that you stay in touch with your Innocence.

Disa: they do all ave that feel web

Uruviel: I think you're right about her leading us to listen and interpret dreams since dreams often give messages about what is going on within or concern something within us. Good point.

Val: Looks like there's bees on the Paulina, too (Goddess symbol)

Web: Interesting mib!

mep: well, i like the Roman Numeral Two in conjunction with the two pillars...graphically, it looks like a gateway, which the pillars represent.,

Web: gmta Val :)

Val: lol Web Indeed!

Disa: that makes sense mib,

mep: Also, there is the idea of duality, light and dark, knowing and not-knowing, conscious and unconscious, etc.

mib_dmytcr: It's a safety net Web whenever you have to take the "Fall" into that Forbidden Knowledge.

Web: Innocence here would be different then the innocence of the Fool imho

Whirling_Sufi: Rachel Pollack says tame and wild, as well

Disa: I just don't get that HP's are all that innocent

mep: Not so much innocence, as acceptance.

mep: yes, sufi

Web: opposites are inherent in this card imho

Disa: yep

mep: spoken and unspoken, too

mep: inner and outer

Whirling_Sufi: Me either, Disa. I think she can challenge us about that, though

Autumnmist: How about purity instead of innocence

Web: black/white what you see what is hidden

Disa: yes purity- true nature- the way we should be

mep: simplicity instead of innocence...a simple state of knowing

Web: um interesting question Autumn

Disa: or rather the way we came here being

Val: #2 = cooperation / HP = Intuition - Cooperation with intuition = Wisdom (how's that, Paul?)

paul: Knowledge is ignorance, ignorance knowledge, intuition is liberation, liberation is fantasy,

Autumnmist: exactly

Disa: I do think HP has pure intentions

Web: purity again would depend on the definition for me

Disa: I agree web

mep: i don't think she has any intentions at all....she just IS

Autumnmist: Unadulturated

mep: what she is

Web: lol good one Paul

Whirling_Sufi: I see her as very complex so simplicity is somethingI need to think about

Web: simple/complex

mib_dmytcr: There's the duality! The human condition between Innocence and Experience, and factoring in Free Will...Die if you do, die if you don't.

mep: and don't if you die! HA!

mib_dmytcr: lol

Web: !

Whirling_Sufi: LOL!

Disa: even if she doesn't have the experience, she still has knowledge of the experience

mep: YES!

mep: great point, Disa!

Whirling_Sufi: Yes!

Disa: hhaha

Uruviel: Look at this HP...in the Legacy...she's fabulous! http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/legacy-divine/

Web: The HP is a 2 how does that add to your meaning or understanding of the card?

Web: What layer does being a two add?

mep: well, i already said that above - duality...knowing/not-knowing, etc.

Disa: yeah duality

Disa: bringing 2 sides together

Whirling_Sufi: Wow! Jimi-she is!

mep: front/back, awake/asleep, here/there,

Disa: all the legacy cards are fabulous IMO

mep: and the Legacy HP shows an owl - there's your "wisdom"

mib_dmytcr: Jimi, she's magnificent. But I wonder why are her eyes so dead looking?

Whirling_Sufi: choices

mep: perhaps she is in a dream-state, a trance

Disa: yes trance eyes, like Druidcraft maybe

Whirling_Sufi: Are those veils over here eyes, something is covering at least under them

Disa: (or hers might be closed)

paul: to is an evil number, according to the Hermeticist

mep: druidcraft looks like she is invoking something; Legacy looks like she's OFFERING something

Web: For me a 2 is about duality as well. Flexibility, and being able to be in both worlds,

Disa: anything enlightening must be evil ;)

mep: being IN the world, without being OF the world, Web?

Uruviel: Maybe like mep says...maybe trance or dream...she's not seeing *this* world as we see it...she sees deeper...inner...spiritual..maybe???

Val: I like that, Web! "...being in both worlds"

Web: yes and no ;)

mib_dmytcr: Seems to me you can only visit HP's domain for a split second, or there's threat of losing your Soul to her realm.

mep: or finding it, mib!

Disa: unless you ARE the HP

Web: she can step forward, or move back

paul: there are two kinds of people the world, those who see that there are two kinds of people in the world, and those who do not.

mep: lol, paul

mib_dmytcr: And if you do, refusing to leave. It could be a trap Mep!

Disa: hmmm

Whirling_Sufi: LOL, Paul

Val: lol Paul

Web: the Mythic shows someone who can live with the living or the dead

Disa: some just see the wrong 2

Whirling_Sufi: Yay, Disa unless you ARE!

Disa: their division is wrong I mean

mep: Yes - Persephone....had to revisit Hades once a year.

Autumnmist: Gotta go. Have a great weeks guys :)

Disa: doh

mep: bye Autumn!

Whirling_Sufi: Oh, heavens, me , too. Thank you Web and everyone-great chat!

Val: Ah, Persephone - wasn't getting the 'living with the dead' until you mentioned that, mep (Mythic)

***Uruviel whispers...that's one of my favorite parting quotes...the one that popped up for Autumnmist. hehehe

Web: She is the card of the psychic medium she can speak to the dead or hear the whispers of those no longer living on this plain.

paul: all for eating a couple of pomegranate seeds

Uruviel: Bye, Sufi...

Disa: ha

mep: don't see a parting quote (I'm not in Ice Chat) - what was it, Jimi?

mep: bye, Sufi!

Web: another women punished for what she ate

Uruviel: "if at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you."

mib_dmytcr: Or putting a splash of it in your morning pudding Paul.lol

Uruviel: hehehe

mep: LOL, Web!

mep: ha!

Val: ( "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you" ) <-- Autumn's parting quote

Disa: haha

Web: I see them and I'm not in ice chat

paul: I like my cave!

mep: hmmmm - weird!

Uruviel: sufi's was good, too (He who laughs last, thinks slowest." hahahaha

mep: Did you come in through the TFL site, Web?

Disa: yeah sufis is true- I see it at work all day long

Web: no i'm in pidgin

mep: oh

mep: that 'splains it!

Uruviel: Sorry...I'll behave now. :$

Web: actually I forgot to open Ice Chat :O

paul: well I see that we have not exhausted the mysteries of the high priestess and I will have to return to her alter many times to discover what she's really about

mep: you always behave, Jimi - just sometimes you behave badly! LOL!

Web: >:o

Uruviel: :o

Web: yes agree Paul

Disa: ha

Web: How might you use this card as a point of meditation or focus card?

Val: Meditative - What do I don't know that I know?

Web: To enter the realm of dreams.

Web: nice Val

Val: :D

Disa: right val- I was wondering how to phrase that ;)

paul: so I guess it's time to say sayonara, and don't be a stranger, I'm taken off, catching a few rays, and a little snooze, and back to reading a Nightmare Alley.

mib_dmytcr: Paul, watch out for those floating stray promegranate seeds! Bop you on the head when you least expect it. lol

mep: have a great day, Paul

Web: Enjoy Paul! (R)

mep: Meditative....how can I see what I don't see?

Val: See ya Wednesday morning, Paul! Have a great day!

Uruviel: Mine was similar to Val's...walk in and ask her, "What do I know deep within that I need to be consciously aware of?

Uruviel: Bye, Paul.

Web: As a focus I'd use it to remind me that I am a spiritual being

paul: you all too!

mep: The palms on the veil (RWS) signify opening the third eye, so another meditative use for this would be to open intuition

Web: yes agreed mep

Web: to open up the psyche

mib_dmytcr: Open up the psyche to what?

mep: to whatever!

Uruviel: The DruidCraft would inspire me to reach up, open myself, and receive what I'm given...I could just sit and receive...

Web: receiving

Val: Reminds me of a meditation I do "Look into the silence & observe..."

mib_dmytcr: Slippery Mep, real slippery! lol

Web: the DC reminds me of drawing down the moon

Web: becoming the goddess

mep: cool, Val...like THe Power of Silence exercises from the RS pre-class!

Uruviel: That's what she's doing, according to the book.

Val: Oh! It does look like drawing down the moon!

mep: yes, Web - re DC

Disa: ;)

Val: Yes, mep, that class made me think of this meditation, too

mep: good reminder...I haven't worked with any of that information / exercise since the RS...need to get back to it. WANT to.

Web: Astrological correspondence is the Moon, Hebrew letter is Gimel, Path on the ToL is Kether to Tipheret. Any other correspondences you use? How does this add to your card?

Uruviel: But since I don't know about drawing down the moon...it reminded me of when I went to a charismatic church and you would lift your hands to receive whatever message God meant for you to have...

mep: Elementally - water. Emotion, intuition.

mep: flow

Uruviel: That's what I noticed in the Legacy HP...she's in water...

mep: i like the way the RWS HP's gown is kind of "dissolving" into water around her ankles.

mib_dmytcr: Or during Mass, the Lord's Prayer is said while opening the arms to receive the message or holy blessing.

Uruviel: Right...:)

Val: Can you see the kitty "hidden" in her gown? (RWS)

mep: not to mention the elevation of the Host

Val: Just over the cressent moon

mep: kind of, Val...I'm looking at the Giant version, though, and that actually makes the illusion of the cat less apparent.

Web: no Val I haven't seen that!

Disa: I don't see a kitty or water at her feet?

Web: never really looked or heard that

Val: Just above the cressent moon at her feet, Disa

mep: the way her gown becomes all rippled at the hem, Disa....the water

Val: An outline of a cat

mep: and the kitty is in the folds of the gown within the curve of the crescent moon - kind of unclear, but there.

mib_dmytcr: Secret Tarot's image reminds me of the elderly Grand Dame who receives seekers needing her blessing.

Web: I see a bird

mep: yes - she's very regal

mep: a bird, Web?

Web: yep

Val: An owl?

Val: I'm managing to morph the kitty into an owl lol

mep: disa - also note the flowing lines that go OVER the crescent moon, as though the dress had turned to water and was spilling over the moon

Web: a soaring bird with it's head up from the place where the moon touching the ground

mep: quite a trick, Val!

mep: web - where the dress "spills over" the moon? is that one of the wings?

Web: that is the tail of the bird i'm seeing

Web: LOL

mep: okay - I can kind of see it.

Disa: well I see the cascading hem- ust doesn't really seem like water

Val: Hmmm.......now I see a mouse under the kitty (mouse looking up)

Web: lol

Web: Next week is the 2 of Cups :)